No Front Shocks and Tire Wear

[TGriffith]

I thought this topic might be an intersting one to fight over.
It has been said that the BMW with a telelever suspension has an advantage on the track since it doesn't dive while on the brakes.
Along those lines, the same would hold true for the Bimota Tesi 3D: http://www.zdistrict.com/2006/12/24/bimota-tesi-3d/

But, my argument is this: if there are no shocks to absorb the stopping momentum of the bike - then does that inertia get sent thru the tires... and if so, does that cause excessive tire wear?

I bet you can stop faster with this setup on both the street and track - but I bet that the tire wear on the track would out-weigh the stopping power advantage.  Of course, this is speculation on my part, and I can be completely wrong.

[oneal]

Here's some reading for you:
http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/suspension.html

I'm still not sure what to make of it all.

[TGriffith]

That's an intersting article - to say the least.  I did try googling telelver and tire wear... there seem to be a handful of people complaining... but not a lot... and for some complaints, I think their real issue was tire pressure.
But still... physics will tell you that all that forward momentum needs to be absorbed somewhere - and if it's all done by the tires - I tend to believe that under harsh conditions, you will get more tire wear.  I think that's the price you pay.  It all depends on how you ride.  My guess would be... the telelever will yield better sopping, and the front tire will wear as fast as the rear - so no big loss there.
     Another potential issue with the telelever design is that you might not be able to achieve a shorter wheel base... but I don't know if that's true or not.  Looks like the BMW is only 5 inches longer than the conventional track bike.
     As for items discussed in that article... I would have to agree that with the new ideas, and lowering the center of gravity of the bike - that you will have a much better bike, but I would still have my concerns with tire wear.  So, I would guess that the Bimota Tesi 3D could be a superior bike since it has a lower center of gravity... lower weight... more rigity... and if the suspension is done right - no excessive tire wear.  Too bad there weill only be 29 made - so I don't think we'll see any of them at the track!
     All in all - I think I would prefer a BMW over the conventional track bike... too bad I can't afford one!

[oneal]

But how is there more weight on the front wheel versus conventional tubes if the bike doesn't dive?  Think of your little stoppie incident.  You basically had your entire weight (plus the bike) on the front wheel.  You'll get close to that amount of force riding agressivly on the track anyway.

Now consider the telelever...  The suspension meets the bike at the bottom (or middle) of the frame, versus the top triple on a conventional bike.  When you're braking, the forces are behind the wheel instead of pushing down from the top of the bike.  There will still be a shift of weight towards the front of the bike, but I would think the downward force on the front wheel would be much less than the conventional tubes...

Maybe I don't get it either.   

[oneal]

Anyone else have an opinion?

[prudolf]

Generally with day to day riding, I've been picking BMW's over most of the other bikes. 
They for whatever reason just seem to "feel" easier to ride with less concentration.  A lot of this mostly is due to the telelever, were I think it leaves more compliance in the front shock and less disturbance to the rider, however which means less feedback when really pushing to the limits.  You can see this "confidence" even in the beginner group sessions at the track, I've seen guys that don't really have everything down quite well, but they just keep leaning the bike in and make it go, scary.  I think they get this because they don't really feel the bike doing as much, not as much feedback, as you would on a conventional front end.

Tire wear's the other issue.  "Cupping" happens on any bike, mostly from tire deflection is kinda what I understand.  Suspension setup, tire pressure, type of tire, riding style...all part of the confusion.  BMW's seem to do it the most, just the nature of the beast.  Obviously it seems to be the telelever design, where I would guess that there's more forces on the tire from braking.  The front shock will only soak up a little of the initial braking force but most is transferred from the telelever to the chassis, leaving the tire to take more deflection.

take this however you like, this is all from simple knowledge and riding/service experience with these bikes.  Let me know what other opinions are on this, however this thread could go on for eternity, especially being a suspension and tire topic.